Asbestos safety in the community webinar

Good morning, everyone and welcome to the 2023 Asbestos Safety in the Community session on behalf of Workplace Health and Safety Queensland and the Office of Industrial Relations. Firstly, I'd like to thank you all for taking time out of your busy work and home lives to join us today as part of Asbestos Awareness Week 2023. My name's Chris Bombolas. I'm your MC for today. I'd like to begin by respectfully acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land we are speaking to you from today and on which you are learning and working from today. We also pay our respects to elders past and present and extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people watching today. A little bit of housekeeping. If you have any questions for our speakers today, please type them into the live chat box on the right of your screen and we will be looking to answer these during the panel session which of course follows our speakers. If you have any technical difficulties during the live stream, please make sure the sound on your computer is turned on, refresh your browser and if that doesn't work, contact us via the live chat box or email us at events at oir.qld.gov.au. You can also change the size of your screen to full screen by selecting the four small arrows next to the volume bar at the bottom of your screen.

Now with approximately one in every three homes in Australia containing asbestos, it affects so many people. Trades, homeowners, renovators, DIYers, demolishers, asbestos removalists. Not to mention the families in these dwellings and of course their surrounding neighbours.

In today's session we'll look at where asbestos containing materials are commonly found in residential homes, how to manage it, safe methods for cleaning and information about removing up to 10 square metres of non-friable asbestos.

Let's move on to our speakers for today and first up I'd like to introduce John Snooks, Chief Advisor of Asbestos at the Office of Industrial Relations. John is also a qualified occupational hygienist. Today John's providing us with some practical tips and advice on working with asbestos commonly found in our homes. Welcome John.

Thank you, Chris, for the introduction. Start off by just mentioning there's three types of asbestos that you'll normally find in your materials in your home. We've got your serpentine which is cross-tilt, it's a wavy asbestos fibre and then you've got two amphibole ones which are a bit more needle like your crocidolite and amosite, your brown and your blues.

So, while asbestos is used extensively, it's been over 3,000 building products in Australia. They mined it extensively, it was cheap to mine, easily accessible. It's got great flexibility, high tensile strength, insulate from heat and it's non-conductive and chemically inert.

So, in 2003, 31st of December, Australia prohibited the importation and use of asbestos in building products but back in the mid-80s is when Australia stopped making these products. So up until that point they'll allow a stockpile and keep selling. So generally, if your house is built after 1990, we like to think that you've got an unlikely chance of asbestos being in your home. Whereas if it's built before 1990 there's a high chance that you've got asbestos containing products.

So, when you're looking around your home there's a few things that you could look at to identify which might make you think you've got asbestos. So, the age of your building, so pre-1990 or if you had a renovation between that 50s and 90s era, you might find manufacturing labels on the back of your cement sheet products or the look and the feel of the products. So, the bottom right-hand picture there you can see like a dimple back picture, imprint on the back of the cement sheet, that's a good indication that it could contain asbestos. The old cement sheet's quite hard so the heads on the clouds might sit proud of the cement sheet or you might have cover strips sitting on your sheets that you can see in the two left hand side pictures.

So, there's three main diseases caused by asbestos exposure. You've got your mesothelioma, lung cancer and asbestosis and generally your risk factors of getting those diseases is how much you breathe in, how long you breathe it in for and how often you breathe it in for. Now that also depends on what size and shape of the fibres that you breathe in and as a rule it's the ones that you can't see, the ones that are most dangerous. And there's also some individual risk factors such as if you're a smoker you have a much higher chance of getting lung cancer.

So, it's important before you do any work in your home that you identify where the asbestos is in your home. So, if you go to the asbestos.qld.gov.au website we've got some great pictures in there that will identify it. And if you're unsure you should always get it tested and you take the sample to a NATA accredited laboratory. That is the only testing methodology that Workplace Health and Safety Queensland accepts.

And if you don't want to take the samples yourself you can ring up one of the laboratories and they'll be able to send a technician around and take those samples for you. So, there's no one identifying feature of an asbestos product or give you an indication that it's asbestos. So, you can see the picture on the left there. It's a cement sheet from the 1950s, it's got the dimple back that's grey. Then you've got one from the 1970s, much smoother and it's a pinky colour. So don't be fooled by the cement sheet is pink therefore it doesn't contain asbestos.

So, here's a couple of metre boards that contain asbestos. The one on the left's got the black backing board. Also, you can get some woven rope insulator in those ceramic fuses. And the one on the right we've got the door, and the back of the switchboard is lined with asbestos cement sheet.

Picture on the left you've got asbestos pipe above the T section that's cast iron and the picture on the right you've got your disconnected trap surround moulding. It's on quite a different roofing products so here are two shingle products that make it look like slate but it's actually a cement sheet.
And we've got super sick cement sheeting on these two pictures. So, the one on the left is more of a Tuscan style, you've got the shorter sheets and the one on the right is your standard style. A couple of hints, you could have asbestos roof, the sheeting's much thicker than your normal tin roof. And if you have a look at the bolts or the screws that are holding the sheets on, they'll have a little diamond washer under that as well. And the ridge capping is quite a lot larger than what it is for tin sheeting.

Picture on the left you've got asbestos gutters, asbestos defeats under the eaves as well on wall sheeting. And the picture on the right you've got the wall sheeting and you've got the corner capping as well. So, there's many different external cladding profiles. So, you've got the one on the left is some horizontal boards, they come in a three high profile. And the one on the right imitates boarding that's vertical.

Picture on the left we've got some log cabin and the picture on the right we've got some stucco sheeting. Here's some cephets under the eaves, you can either get them that are flat. These two pictures here, the one on the left has had some slots cut into it and the one on the right has had some diamond shaped holes for ventilation.

Again, flat cement sheet on the picture on the left, you can see this one's got timber, cover strips. And on the right, we've got faux brick, so it's a stencil brick that's covering asbestos cement sheet. We've got some ceiling panels that are cement sheet on the left and some tileux wet area splashbacks on the right that you normally find in bathrooms and kitchens.

Floor coverings, so floor tiles on the left, they're a non-friable product. And on the right, we've got vinyl, and if you've got a vinyl that's got grey backing it's likely going to be asbestos. And that's a very high content asbestos in that grey layer at the back, and that's a friable product and you should not attempt to touch this yourself.

So, another product to be wary of, is if you're going to do some home renovations, is low density board. Now low-density board is approximately 70% asbestos and it's very soft. You can bend it and when you try to break it tears, and when you disturb it, it generates a lot of airborne fibres. It's made of a, it's got a calcium silicate matrix in it instead of a cement sheet matrix which makes it a lot softer.

So here you can see the picture on the far left with the nails, they sit flush, or they can be countersunk in LDB versus asbestos cement sheet on that middle picture where that cloud head's sitting proud. And that right hand picture there, you've got a screwdriver that can easily push into the LDB product.

Some ceiling tiles that are perforated through LDB and the picture on the right is the back of one of the sheets that has an asbestos lux sign on it. So don't assume if you can't find asbestos lux signage on it that it's not LDB.

So don't become a victim and start your renovation without identifying asbestos. In this instance the person tore down some LDB walls and they've contaminated their whole house. So, Workplace Health and Safety Queensland recommend that if you're going to do any work on asbestos you engage a licensed asbestos removalist. However, we understand that's not always going to be the case, so we ask you at least to obey the law and engage a licensed asbestos removalist if you're going to be removing greater than 10 square metres of non-friable asbestos, if you have any friable asbestos or more than minor quantities of asbestos dust and debris.

So, whenever you do asbestos related work or some small asbestos removal you've still got to follow the same processes as an asbestos removalist. So, you need to be able to identify all your hazards. Asbestos is one hazard when you're dealing with asbestos, but you might have electrical hazard, you might have a fall from height hazard as well. So, you need to make sure that you've dealt with those.

You need to indicate your asbestos removal area. So that's normally putting barricading up and some signage, so people know what you're doing and they're not going to come in and walk in unprotected.

You need to wear personal protective equipment and you need to make sure that that's appropriate for what you're doing, and it fits correctly so you've got the best protection. You use wet methods of removal which means you're just spraying down the asbestos sheet with water as a low-pressure spray. You want to use the correct tools and that's normally hand tools, tools that will help you pull out nails and pry sheets from the wall.

You need to be able to decontaminate yourself and the area where you've worked in, and you need to make sure that you've wrapped your waste and disposed of it properly.

So, if you're going to do some painting of asbestos cement sheet, we recommend you only paint material that's in good condition. If it's badly weathered or it's broken, we recommend to remove it. So, for sample preparation wash it with sugar soap. If you've got loose paint, then you can do a light scraping with a paint scraper but only do that on a wet surface so you're not generating airborne asbestos fibres. And don't try and remove the paint that is on the cement sheet, just paint straight over the top of it.

 

If you need to drill a hole in the asbestos material, we recommend you put some tape on, we're going to do the hole. So, the tape helps support the edges of the hole, so it stops it crumbling when you drill through. Then you put some shaving cream in a circle around the hole, we're going to do it and use a disposable cup. So, with a disposable cup you put shaving cream in the cup and when you put that up against the wall the shaving cream that you've put on the wall and in the cup that captures all the material that's coming off the cement sheet as you drill through it as you can see in those bottom two pictures. So, if you want to remove some cement sheet the process is fairly simple.

You cordon off your area, you wear your PPE as discussed, wet down the cement sheet before you remove it to prevent airborne fibres being generated. Avoid damaging or breaking the sheet. You remove it whole and that reduces the airborne fibres that are generated. Always use plastic drop sheets on the ground, that will collect any dust and debris that fall down and it's easy to wipe up and then get rid of the plastic, dispose of the asbestos waste.

Make sure you decontaminate yourself by using a spray and spray your suit down, gently roll it off so you're not generating airborne fibres and wipe your boots down with a wet rag.

Always try and do removal in a well-ventilated area because if you do generate any airborne fibres, they'll be able to dissipate.

So, when you're cleaning up using a wet rag with a bucket you only dip that wet rag in the bucket once and you use a face of the wet rag, wipe it on the surface until that's contaminated, then fold it over to get a new face and keep wiping until that rag is full of debris. Gain, decontaminate yourself and dispose of the waste correctly.

So, there are a few prohibited activities in the workplace health and safety regulations. So, power tools and brooms are not to be used unless enclosed or used in a way that prevents dust being generated. You're not allowed a high-pressure water blast asbestos and you can't use compressed air. Now if you're doing any asbestos related work at your home do not use your home, a household vacuum cleaner. You'll contaminate your vacuum cleaner, and it will need to be thrown out.

The only vacuum cleaners that can be used for asbestos work are industrial related H class HEPA vacuum cleaners. So, if you go to our website if you need to repaint your roof, please have a look at this video. It goes through the process on our website of preparing this asbestos roof for painting. If you high pressure spray your roof to clean it, you will contaminate your yard. It destroys the top layer of the sheet so it puts that in your yard and into the two neighbours’ yards and you'll be responsible for paying for the clean-up which could cost you in excess of 80% of your yard. It could cost you in excess of $80,000.

So, if you want further resources on how to do asbestos related work or do a little bit of removal you can go to our asbestos.qld.gov.au website and we have some safe procedures there. Or you can go to the two codes of practice, the how to safely remove asbestos or how to manage and control asbestos in the workplace. So, the appendices in these two code of practices give you some examples on how to safely drill into asbestos material or how to seal it and paint it. The removal code of practice gives you some tips and guides you through how to remove small amounts of asbestos as well.

You can also go to the website and download this publication, a guide for minor renovations. That has a lot of good information in it as well and tells you where you can find asbestos. And finally last slide, a little bit of an overview. Again, don't use a power tool on asbestos. Don't hyper spray, don't saw or sand or scrape asbestos. Make sure you know if you're going to start doing some asbestos work, make sure you understand what you're going to be doing before you start that work.

Don't walk asbestos material through your house. Make sure you decontaminate every time you leave that area. Make sure you dispose of asbestos correctly. Don't put it in your garbage bins and don't reuse the asbestos once you've removed it. Thank you.

Thanks John. Some very handy tips for those thinking about doing some work around the house and they do detect asbestos, or they think they may have asbestos and need to get it tested. If you do have a question for John, remember you can use the live chat box to the right of your screen. Just type in that question and we'll get to them at the end of our session. Our next speaker today is Tim Reid, Manager of Waste Compliance Operations within the Department of Environment and Science.

Tim has worked with the State Government in a regulatory context for over 15 years, the majority within the environmental space. Over the past five years, Tim has worked specifically in waste compliance, including the implementation and now coordination of the state-wide compliance response to the waste levy that commenced in 2019. It gives me great pleasure to welcome Tim to the podium.

Thank you, Chris, for the introduction and good morning to everyone. Thank you for logging on. So, I'm here this morning to talk about the environmental aspects of asbestos management. So understandably, most focus tends to first be on the health and safety requirements and that is certainly understandable given the nature of what asbestos actually is. But today I'll be talking through some of the lesser known or probably missed aspects about how to safely transport and dispose of your asbestos waste once they're done. So, what are we going to cover this morning?

We'll talk through asbestos classification as a regulated waste. We'll talk about the considerations if you're removing the asbestos yourself and then we'll talk if you are going to engage a professional to remove that asbestos. These are the relevant pieces of legislation for the Department of Environment.
 

So, we have the environment, the principal environmental legislation on the left and then the waste reduction recycling act on the right. So, both have some relevance to asbestos, but they don't overlap in terms of what they're what they're aiming at.

So, the department administers a classified waste in three different ways. We have general waste or the lowest risk. That's the bottom point that you'll see down there. That's your household domestic waste and other low risk waste. And then we have waste streams that are classified as regulated waste streams and those are classified into two main categories, category one and category two.

And category one is the highest risk waste. So those types of waste streams represent the highest risk both from an environmental and also from a health and safety point of view. Category two is slightly lower but still necessary to be properly regulated.

Now asbestos regardless of the type of asbestos it is, whether it's non-friable or friable asbestos, is classified as a category two regulated waste. So, we'll talk through what that actually means. Now first of all from the point of view for your removing it yourself, what do you need to consider?

There's two different things. We've got safe removal and safe transport. So, John has just spoken through the safe removal matters. I'll now talk through the safe transport. Now the second two points there relate to licensing requirements. So, the department for transporting of regulated waste, both within Queensland and cross border as well, has a requirement that if you're going to transport above certain limits of different regulated wastes, then you need to hold an environmental approval or environmental authority for regulated waste transport.

Now for asbestos there's a flat rate of 175 kilograms. So below 175 kilograms you do not need to be licensed transporter. Above that level you do need to hold an approval to transport that waste. What is 175 kilograms? It depends on the type of asbestos that you're transporting. So, it is a figure to be mindful of if you are looking at a fairly sizable DIY job, a fairly sizable asbestos removal job. It is probably likely that you will hit the 175 kilos if you transport it in a single load.

Now the second point is about waste tracking. Now waste tracking is an administrative function relating to regulated waste, and it enables a department to maintain eyes, I guess, on those high-risk wastes. So, we need to know if someone is transporting those regulated wastes throughout the state, we need to know where they came from, who's transporting them, and we need to know where they're going. Because obviously we don't want these types of wastes ending up at any facility or even more concerningly at an unlicensed facility.
Now, self-transport, a DIY person removing their own asbestos, up to 250 kilograms of that material, the waste tracking provisions do not apply. For a commercial operator it's zero. But once you go over the 250 kilograms, it's regardless of who is doing the transport, whether it's a domestic occupant, a commercial operator, waste tracking provisions will apply, which is a whole separate level of administration.

A commercial operator, so you've engaged someone to remove the asbestos, there's a few things to consider in that space as well. So, if you've engaged an asbestos remover, hopefully they are quite open with their classes of license. They're very open in how they're licensed to remove asbestos to which level, to which type of asbestos, and very confident and professional in that aspect.

But what about their transport? So that 175 kilograms applies to everybody. So, if you've engaged someone to remove large quantities of asbestos from your house, they will also potentially need to be licensed for their transport as well, if they're going to transport it in a load that is greater than 175 kilograms.

There's a few things you can do as a homeowner when you're engaging someone. You can ask if they're licensed, they can provide you a copy of their license, you can ask where the asbestos is being disposed. So, asbestos must be disposed, you cannot recycle it, regardless of how minor the contamination is, if there's timber, if there's concrete or any other asbestos associated with otherwise recyclable material. We can't recycle it; we don't want it going to a facility that can process concrete and then sell it to somebody else if it's laced with asbestos. So, it has to be disposed, so ask them where they're going to dispose it. You can also ask them for a copy of the weighbridge certificate, or the weighbridge docket.

So, when the transporter arrives at a landfill to dispose, they'll be given a weighbridge docket as a receipt for that disposal and ask for a copy of that so that you can be satisfied that that waste was actually disposed at a licensed landfill. Why would you care? Why would you bother? Because we don't want it here. So, a legally dumped asbestos is not only a risk to the environment, but it's certainly a risk to anyone who comes across it.

The people who have to then clean it up, it's generally not nicely wrapped and covered, so it can just be simply dumped in a park, or where there's other public access, so we certainly don't want the asbestos going here. So, in summary, asbestos must be disposed of at a licensed facility. How you find where a licensed facility is, the Asbestos Queensland website that John introduced earlier is a valuable resource for identifying those disposal locations.

You can also contact your local government. So, if you're interested in, if they've got some information on where to dispose, you can contact them. If you are transporting yourself, and you've identified your landfill, call ahead. Make sure they're aware that you're coming. So don't just turn up and indicate the load of asbestos that you've got in the back of the ute. Make sure they know that you're coming, because often the landfills will have what's called special burial requirements. So, they will have a location in that landfill that's designed for asbestos receipt. They will place that asbestos in there, and then they'll cover it immediately, because what we don't want, certainly from the people who work at that waste facility, we can't have exposed asbestos then being driven over by compactor materials, compactor vehicles. So, it'll be covered, and then it can be compacted after that. If you're doing it yourself, do you need an environmental authority to transport? Do you need to do waste tracking? Do you really want to do that? If you are looking at doing large scale asbestos removal, I would encourage you just to engage that professional.

But then check that they actually have the licenses, ask where they're going to take the waste, and ask for that receipt so that you know that your asbestos hadn't ended up somewhere where it shouldn't. And finally, if you do suspect something is amiss, or is not quite right, you can contact the Department of Environment via the pollution hotline, or of course the Asbestos Safety Regulator, the Office of Industrial Relations, and they can investigate as well. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Tim. I'm sure that all our viewers are now much wiser when it comes to transporting and disposing of asbestos safely. Reminder if you have any questions for Tim, you can submit them now via the chat box to the right of your screen, and we'll get them at the conclusion of our presentations.

Speaking of that, our next speaker today is Jim Edwards, Senior Environmental Health Officer in the Health Protection Branch at Queensland Health. Jim has 22 years public health experience working in Queensland health and local governments. He has experience in a wide range of environmental areas, including food safety, vector control, smoking products, pest management, poisons regulation, and asbestos. Welcome, Jim.

Great. Thank you very much, Chris, and welcome to the viewers. So, this morning I'm covering off on the Public Health Act, which is one of the primary pieces of legislation that relates to asbestos, and I'll be covering some of the provisions and powers under the Act, and I'll also be talking about some of the aspects of the 10 square metre rule.

Okay. So, Queensland Health is a custodian of the Public Health Act 2005 and the Public Health Regulation 2018. Now, as custodians, we're responsible for the administration and the management of the legislation, so that would include things like making amendments or changes, as well as providing support and advice to any of the delegates or that may be stakeholders or authorised under the legislation so that it could include local governments.

Now, the Act covers a number of different public health risks and areas, so it covers areas such as notifiable communicable diseases, it covers aspects relating to child health, it covers blood lead issues, and it also covers infection control aspects. So, there are a number of different areas that are covered by the Public Health Act, but one particular feature of the Public Health Act is around the definitions of public health risks. So, it defines probably about 12 different types of public health risks, and one of those is specifically related to asbestos.
Now, the public health risks are grouped into different categories, and they are local government public health risks and state government public health risks, which is important to know when it comes to who is administering the different public health risks under the legislation. Now, the Act provides tools to administer and enforce the provisions relating to public health risks, and they include things like improvement notices, public health orders and enforcement orders.

Now, when we talk specifically about asbestos as a public health risk, the legislation where asbestos is captured as a public health risk under Section 111(b)(8) of the Act, and this includes dispersal or release of a by-product of manufacturing, construction, repair, alteration, cleaning, or demolition work at a place other than a workplace.

Now, the Act also allows for other matters to be prescribed under a regulation, and as you'll see further on, there are a number of additional public health risks defined within the public health regulation.

And then lastly there, asbestos is defined as a local government public health risk, and what that means is that the state government cannot enforce local government public health risks and local government cannot enforce state government public health risks unless there is an agreement between the local government and the state government through the chief executives of the entities for one entity to enforce on behalf of the other entity.

Okay, so as I mentioned earlier, under the public health risks, under the public health regulation, Sections 7 to 13 are automatically public health risks. So, some of those sections include, for example, the removal of friable or bonded asbestos-containing material. So, the removal of friable ACM requires a Class A asbestos removal license, and homeowners, generally speaking, are not authorised to remove or should not be removing any friable ACM.

So that is specifically a public health risk under the regulation. The removal of more than 10 square metres of bonded ACM is not permitted without an approved certificate. So that's another public health risk. Using power tools or high-pressure water processes to cut or clean ACM is a public health risk. Minimising, so under the regulation, a person is required to minimise the release of asbestos fibres if undertaking prescribed work, and prescribed work includes breaking, cleaning, cutting, removing or repairing ACM.

Packaging and disposal of asbestos waste is included, and there are specific requirements around how asbestos waste should be packaged and removed, and again, that is a public health risk. And lastly, the sale or giveaway of asbestos-containing material is also a public health risk under the regulation. Okay, I mentioned before approved certificates. So, for the removal of more than 10 square metres of bonded ACM by a homeowner, they have to have the approved certificates, which can be seen on the slide there. So that is module CPCCDE3014, removal of non-friable asbestos.
 

And the alternative is the online or face-to-face homeowner and do-it-yourself asbestos removal course offered by QIES Human Resources. Now, those links there or those courses are available on the Queensland Health Whole of Government website for asbestos, and you can click on the first link there, which will take you to a list of registered training organisations, or the second link there will take you to the QIES Human Resources website.

So, in relation to the 10 square metre rule, or do-it-yourself asbestos removal provisions within the legislation, Queensland Health has recently completed a public consultation on the 10 square metre removal provisions. Under that consultation process, there were three options that were presented. The first one was to retain the current 10 square metre rule as it is. The second option was to remove the removal of any amount of asbestos-containing material that would require approved training. So, if it was less than 10 square metres, you would still need to do approved training. And the third option was the removal or the prohibition of any removal of any quantity of bonded ACM by homeowners.

And at the moment, that consultation has completed, but the outcomes are still pending. So, Queensland Health recommends homeowners engage a licensed asbestos removalist to remove and dispose of asbestos, however acknowledging that under the legislation currently a homeowner can conduct a limited amount of asbestos removal work without a licence.

So, homeowners removing less than 10 square metres of ACM should comply with the How to Safely Remove Asbestos Code of Practice 2021, which is available on the Holer Government website. So just moving on to some of the powers under the Public Health Act in relation to asbestos. So, we have authorised persons who are authorised under the legislation and they have powers to investigate and enforce provisions within the Act in regulation. So that includes things such as entry to places, searching places, photographing or filming things, copying documents or seizing and taking things.

An authorised person can give a public health order which can require a person to stop doing certain things. So, for example, a public health order could require a person to stop carrying out asbestos removal work. And it could also require a person if, for example, they had undertaken asbestos removal work and had severely contaminated their home. It could require them to cease using the place as a residential premises until the place had been made safe.

A public health order can also require people to do certain things such as, for example, putting up barriers to prevent access to a place. It can require them to cover, or seal exposed asbestos containing material and it can require them to dispose of asbestos waste. And failure to comply with a public health order is an offence.

So, a magistrate can authorise a local government to enter a place to carry out work required under a public health order if the public health order has not been complied with. And the costs of the local government's work may be recouped from a landholder. And in addition to that, if a neighbouring property has been contaminated by a landholder, then the neighbouring landholder may also be able to recover costs of clean up from a responsible person.

So, there are offences under the Public Health Act and the Regulation for Non-compliance with the Act and Regulation. So, under the Regulation there are penalties of up to 100 penalty units. And authorised officers can also issue penalty infringement notices of up to 10 penalty units or fines.

The current penalty unit value is $154.80 and there are also avenues for prosecution for failure to comply with a public health order or enforcement of public health orders. Okay, so that closes off my part of the presentation and I've got some contact details there if anyone had any questions after the meeting. Thank you.

Thanks again, Jim. Some very important details and information about asbestos and dealing with it from a health perspective and some of the consequences if not done properly. And a reminder, if you have any questions for Jim or any of our speakers for that matter, you can submit them via the chat box to the right of your screen. We'll get to them very, very shortly.

Our final presenter today is Rudolf Pretzler, lead public health and waste at the Local Government Association of Queensland Limited. Originally from Europe working in ecological assessments, Rudi has spent the past four years in state and local government in Queensland pushing for better community outcomes in waste management and a circular economy. For the past year, as the lead for the Public Health and Waste at the Local Government Association of Queensland, he uses his expertise to help councils in delivering these vital services to every Queenslander. Welcome, Rudi.

Thank you, Chris, for the great introduction you gave me there and welcome to everyone online. And thank you to the speakers who came before me to providing those key insights into how asbestos needs to be handled in Queensland and councils are really agreeing with everything that has been said so far. But why am I here? Queensland is one of the most dispersed places on this planet. We have areas the size of Germany with less than 1000 people living in them. And it's really hard to manage everything from a single place like Brisbane.

And so, this is where councils come in. And this is why, as Jim has pointed out before, we have regulation that has to be enforced by councils.

So, I am here because we don't have time today and we don't have space today to have 77 mayors present in this vital space. So, I am speaking on their behalf to you. That's what the LGQ comes in. We are the oldest not-for-profit organization and peak body in Queensland. We are representing all 77 councils from the Gold Coast up to the Torres Strait and out to Birdsville in Diamond Tiena, Shire. And we have agreed to partner with all the agencies present here today on properly managing asbestos in Queensland.

As a homeowner, most work you'll probably be doing with asbestos will be of the interest to your council as they have accepted the responsibility under the Public Health Act to enforce asbestos regulation in what is called a non-workplace setting. And while that is a fancy legal term, non-workplace setting really literally just means your house in most cases. Our responsibility really cuts across everything you heard so far from how it is removed from your house safely, how landfills are managed, and then also a legal dumping in your community.

There you go. I won't go into the same level of details that you've heard from my colleagues before, but if you live in a house that has been built before 1990, maybe your builder or the owner has been taken in by an ad like the one you see on screen right now. That particular one is from America, but there are countless ones that you could find from our past and in media and resources where asbestos has really been doubted as the one material that can save you all. And therefore, it has been used so widespread and there is not a single corner of Queensland where there's no asbestos houses.

So, if you live in a house that has been built before 1990, I really can urge you to just have a look at the asbestos.gov.au website and inform yourself to see if there is something you can do or if there's something you should be doing about that particular thing.

But obviously from a council perspective, we understand if you're doing work yourself, if you think you have the capability of doing it yourself, if it's hard to find a licensed replacer, which is obviously the best choice at all times, things could go wrong.

Sometimes you or your neighbours might not be handling things correctly and as safely as they should. And that's really when the council gets involved to look at the things that my colleague Jim has been talking about. They're especially trained officers that know what they're doing, and they really try to help minimize the damage. So, it is not about trying to punish you for doing something wrong. It is trying to help you keep yourself, your community and your neighbours safe.

And yes, there are, as Jim has mentioned, there is penalties that can be used, but those are only used if they're really necessary. So, if a council officer comes to your renovation, they are there to help you, keep you and your neighbours safe and to get everything back on track and doing the right thing.
 

So that is rule number one for asbestos removal. The second one is landfill management. Not all the landfills in Queensland are owned by councils, but councils own a fair few of them. And they are really a key resource to identify where you can dispose of hazardous materials if you have them in your house or if you want to transport them. So, before you set off, after you've properly packed and removed the asbestos from your house before you set off and go to the landfill, please just take a look at your local government website or give them a call and really ask where should I bring it, who has the right to actually store that hazardous material at the landfill. That not only saves you the frustration of going to the wrong place and driving around with the hazardous material in your car, but also provides you with potential information on who they have to call, how long beforehand do I have to call, and are there any fees or charges that come with transporting that material to that particular landfill.

And on that case, it's also really important to notice, obviously councils have a lot of buildings themselves they have to care for. So, everyone involved in that space pretty much has the same problem that you do in that particular case, because they have to deal with the asbestos in their building as well. They have to follow the same rules. So yeah, we're all in this boat together.

And the final one of council's role is really around illegal dumping. Councils are helping you to try to keep your local community safe. And in a state as large as Queensland and with the distances between our centres, it is often really the help of locals like yourself that keeps our environment clean.

Illegal dumping is always an eyesore, but if it's a material like asbestos, it's also a health risk to the local community and to the environment. So, if you take one thing away from this speech that I'm giving, if you see it reported, it can be as simple as an email or a phone call to your local government.

But there's also a really handy form on the website of the Department of Environment and Science where you can fill everything out, you can upload pictures. If you've seen the person who has dumped it, you can report them with their license plate or whatever else you have. And that really provides not only your council but also the state government with the opportunity to react to those incidents as quickly and as efficiently as possible. And the quicker we can know about things, the quicker we can respond. And that's really a good case of why Queensland has developed such a sophisticated interagency working group that has been presented to you today because we are all responsible for different parts of different acts. But if you report to one part, that part can then tell the other one who is responsible to do the right thing. So, it really shows that different levels of government can work really well together and all councils in Queensland are really on board with that process.

So as a takeaway message, your council is here to help you if it's investigating an incident or making sure individual community members are compliant with the particular parts of the Public Health Act or the Environmental Protection Act or other acts that are relevant to the asbestos. It's really to ensure that the community and your family, your neighbours are safe and there is no further asbestos contamination that can endanger people that might not know it's there.

Not every council is the same. We are a really big state with really large areas. So, the best first case of contact is your local government. So, if you give them a call, they can answer all your questions, they can put you in the right direction and also obviously the Queensland Government asbestos website is something that can always give you key information if you don't find it otherwise.

It is really a one stop shop for all things you need to know when you think, or you know that there might be asbestos in your house, and you want to do something about it. So, I really want to thank you today and I want to thank also the Queensland Government and especially the Office of Industrial Relations of working so closely with local government on this matter. We couldn't be where we are if we didn't work so strong together and really try to give the best for all Queenslanders.

Thank you. Thank you Rudy and as a person who has had a couple of stints at working in state government including a stint with Workplace Health and Safety Queensland and the Office of Industrial Relations it's great to see two levels of government working very, very closely together in an area such as asbestos and trying to keep us all safe from this product and giving us advice, tips, information on how to handle it, how to remove it, how to transport it and then how to dispose of it safely because that's a good thing for the whole community. And look if you do have any questions for Rudy or any of our speakers of course you can submit them.

We've got a number of them which we'll get to in a couple of seconds. Do that via the chat box which is on the right of your screen. It's not too late. We do have about 10 or 15 minutes for our Q&A panel. The guys are ready to go, and I encourage you again if you do have a question use the live chat box to the right of your screen and we'll get to as many of these as we can in our scheduled telecast.

So first up it's a question for John from Andrew and it's a pretty basic one. What's the difference between friable and non-friable materials? We heard about that during your presentation John so please explain.

Thanks Chris. Good question Andrew. So, a friable material is a material that contains asbestos that you can with hand pressure alone when it's dry you can crush, pulverise it and reduce it to powder. So common products in your home that would be friable would be your LDB board or you could have that grey backing on your lino and that is only can be removed by licensed A-Class asbestos removalists.

 

Thanks John. One for Tim from Kim. How do you know if the asbestos remover I have engaged as a homeowner or property owner even a landlord is also a licensed transporter? Yeah thanks Chris.

Thank you, Kim. It's quite easy. There's two ways you could either ask them outright. Do you have a license for transport, and can you tell me your license number? The department also has a public register available online so you can simply use a search engine to search the DES public register and all of the licensed authorities, all the environmental authorities are listed on there and you can search for entity name or specific activity as well.

Thanks Tim. Another one for John. This one comes from Lauren. Thanks for watching Lauren and everybody out there. Keep those questions coming. What are some of the tips on how to make sure a removalist is going to do a good job? We're no experts as the homeowner or the DIYer but how do we know that the removalist is going to do a good job and do it by the book? Like going by the regulation because we don't know how to enforce it.

Thanks Lauren. Before I engage asbestos remover, I'd be asking family and friends if they've removed asbestos previously and got any recommendations on how that process went. Also, when you're talking to asbestos remover, ask for some referees reports from them. Ask them to speak to some of their clients to make sure they were happy when they had the removal done. If you get the removalist on site, you can tell when they start setting up. Have they notified their neighbours like they should be doing? Have they got barrier tape around the outside of the removal area? Have they got signage in place? Are they wearing their PPE correctly? If you just observe them that way you'll be able to pick up on hints as to whether they're going to go through and do the job properly.

Excellent advice. This one's for you Jim and it comes from Jean. She asks, with the 10 square metre rule can a land holder remove 10 square metres of asbestos on separate occasions. So, I'm going to do it over a number of weeks. Remove 10 square metres or a little less to make it kosher on one weekend and then the next weekend, another 10 and then the weekend after and then it all adds up.

Great. Thanks, Jean, for the question. So, the answer is basically no. The intent of the legislation is that the 10 square metre rule is to allow for minimal removal of asbestos. So, if a person has a hole that's been knocked in a wall or if they have to install a PowerPoint or some sort of do some small work around the house then the 10 square metre rule allows them to do that work and to that small amount. However, the intention is not that if a person was wanting to renovate their house that they would each weekend remove 10 square metres and then the next weekend another 10 square metres and the next weekend another 10 square metres. That would be outside the intention of the legislation and would not fall within that interpretation. So having said that, of course the authorised person who's, if there's a complaint or if they're looking at the matter, they will make a judgement themselves. They will be judging the matter themselves. But essentially the answer is no.
Well, can I just take it one step further while you've got the microphone on the floor? If I'm a neighbour and I suspect that's happening, what can I do? I mean, I'm thinking, gee, they're taking a lot of what looks to be asbestos containing material out of this place. Can I, and honestly, make a tip? Can I be that neighbour who's concerned about community and the rest of the environment?

Sure, Chris. Look, if a person is concerned, what they can do is contact either their local council or they could contact Queensland Health. Queensland Health has their 1-3 hotline number. So, if anyone has a query, they can go through that, and we can then refer it on to the local government that's responsible for that area.

Sometimes it's difficult to know whether it's actually a business that's actually doing the work or whether it's the homeowner. But of course, if it is the person that you know who owns a home who's doing all the work, then it's current every weekend, then there might be a suspicion there that they're removing more than 10 square metres. So, if it is a business, would you guys work closely with Workplace Health and Safety Queensland to address that if it's a business that's removing it? That's right. We've got agreements between the different departments and so we would pass any information onto OIR or vice versa.

Excellent. One for you, Rudy, and it comes from Dan. And Dan would like to know, he thinks he saw a pile of materials that could contain asbestos out the front of a house when driving. How do I report this? He's not 100% sure, but he thinks it could be.

Thank you, Dan, for that question. It's a great one. First rule of if you think there's asbestos, don't touch it. That's probably the most important thing. But any information you can get about the illegally dumped material is always useful. So, as I mentioned, there is a very useful guideline on the Department of Environment and Science website for illegal dump, which is a form which asks all the right questions. So, if you can take a picture of the material and send it in as soon as possible, then the responsible local government can send out officers to investigate further and actually make the determination if it is asbestos or not. But if it's a pile that's in a public place, it needs to be removed anyway because it's illegally dumped, and it doesn't matter if it's asbestos or not. But it's really good to know for any of these situations if there's something that the Council needs to react to.

Thanks, Rudy. One for you again, John, comes from Andrew. And Andrew wants to know, can he use a water blaster on the cephets? We've spoken about the roof. And he just wants to know, is it just the roof you can't use that water blaster on?

Thanks again, Andrew. It's a prohibited activity to use a water blaster on any asbestos-containing material, whether that be a roof, cephets, you might have your wall cladding on your house, you might have a corrugated cement sheet fence. You cannot use high-pressure spray water on any asbestos-containing material.

And another one, Andrew, has got a follow-up question as well. Lino in the kitchen, I'm a bit sus about that it may contain asbestos. Is there a way to tell? Can you peel it back and have a look and go, yeah, well, this is definitely asbestos?

Yeah, given that lino is potentially a friable product, I'd engage an asbestos professional to come around and they'll use correct sampling techniques to make sure that they don't contaminate your house when taking that sample.

One for you. Tim Trudi asks, who can I contact if I find illegally dumped asbestos?

Yeah, thanks, Chris. And thanks, Trudi. Yeah, look, it's not a good one. Illegal dumping isn't good in the best of scenarios, let alone if there's asbestos involved. Rudy's touched on it a few times in his talk and just with the earlier question, probably the most important thing is to contact somebody. So whether it be the Department of Environment, whether it be your local government, contact somebody. Jurisdictions can be a bit tricky sometimes. That's not for you to worry about. That's for us to worry about. But as long as you contact somebody, it will be investigated and cleaned up. And that's the best scenario.

One for you, John. Dan in the chat wants to know, his house was built in the 70s and he wants to do some renos. Who do I ask to identify it? I'm presuming asbestos.

Thanks, Chris. And thanks, Dan, for that question. You'd need to contact a competent person around asbestos. So that could be a licensed asbestos assessor. It could be an occupational hygienist. First instance, you could contact the NADA accredited laboratory who's going to do the samples for you. They could either guide you on how to take the samples safely or they could send one of their technicians around your house and take those samples safely for you and give you a report at the end, which will do you a good job. It's a good way to detail all the asbestos that's in your property.

Very sound advice. For Tim, I looked at my local council's website to find out about asbestos disposal and can't find this information anywhere. Who else can I contact? Or where can I get that information from?

Thanks, Chris. The important thing to remember, if you've gone through the council website and you struggle to find it, you should be able to simply contact them directly. Give them a call and ask them about it. They'll have people who'll be able to point you in that direction.

The Asbestos Queensland website does have a list of other sites, including private landfills. So, some private landfills will also take asbestos waste. But certainly, probably your local government is the best first port.

A question for John. Do I have to identify all asbestos in my house before engaging a builder to do some work? So, you suspect there might be some. Does the builder need to know all of it? Or should the owner, the owner, the guy that you've engaged, go around and check?

Thanks, Chris. If you engage a builder to come around and do some renovations at your house, the duty is on the builder to make sure that they identify any asbestos material that they may disturb during those renovations. However, as a homeowner, it's always wise to know what asbestos is in your property so that when you do get further work done or you might be doing some work yourself, you don't accidentally disturb the asbestos.

Is there, then I'll follow up this question, is there an instance where asbestos is safe, and we don't need to panic? We don't want to send our viewers into a panic going, oh, I've got asbestos in the house. Can you live side by side with asbestos in 2023, moving into 2024?

Yeah, thanks Chris. Good question. If your asbestos material is painted in good condition and you're not disturbing it, the risk is extremely low to living side by side with asbestos in your house. The key is leave it undisturbed, keep it painted, keep it in good condition and it could last many more years yet.

Okay. And John, you're going to bring us home. The last question's for you. How can I tell if I have low density board in my house?

Again, the only true way to know that if you've got asbestos product in your house, whether that be low density board or asbestos cement sheet, is to get it tested at an AATRA accredited laboratory. If you suspect that its low-density board being friable, to begin with, I'd be getting an asbestos professional around your house to take a sample safely.

I love doing this, putting our speakers on the spot and you're all going to get it. Tim's laughing because he got it yesterday in yesterday's session for businesses. You're going to get one today. I want one key take home message for all those people who've joined us and taken part in today's session from your particular angle. One key take home message.

And let's go with you, Rudy. I'm going to open the batting down that end this time.

That's all good. I think I put it as part of my presentation already, but my key takeaway message is if you see it reported.

Queens like government and your local government needs your support to actually identify where the illegal dumping is happening. And if you see it and tell someone as soon as you can, it can be rectified as soon as possible.

Excellent. Jim?

I think all our recommendation would be if you're going to remove asbestos, we strongly recommend you use an asbestos license, asbestos removalist.

And if you are doing it yourself that you follow the do it, you do it safely and you follow the guidelines that are provided by the state government. Tim, you're up.

So, Rudy took my first. Jim took my second. So, I do have another one. And that's just make sure you know where your asbestos has gone. It's easy if you're going to transport it yourself. But if you are going to engage someone else, just know where it went. Ask those questions. Make sure they're licensed to not only remove but to transport and just know that it actually went to landfill, which is where it needs to go. Yeah. So just not from a professional commercial point of view, but from a social point of view, we want to know environmental. Where did that go? It does turn up illegally dumped and then someone then has to clean that up and manage it themselves. So, you've just potentially exposed more people to that risk. John, you're going to bring us home with one key takeaway point. My takeaway point, Chris, is that if you don't know or you're not sure what that product is, get it tested before you touch it, so you don't contaminate your property and expose yourself to asbestos.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sure you'll agree our four speakers have given us some very, very sound advice when it comes to handling asbestos safely. I'd like to thank our presenters, John Snooks, Tim Reid, Jim Edwards and Rudy Pretzler. And thank you for joining us here today for this very special presentation. Remember, visit asbestos.qld.gov.au to access resources and other guidance material to learn about asbestos and handling it safely.

Today's session was recorded so you can watch it again using the same link that you used to join this session and please share it with your friends and colleagues as well. We'll also be uploading this recording to the website asbestos.qld.gov.au in the coming weeks. A link to complete a short survey, which is also anonymous, about this session will be emailed tomorrow. There's also a QR code on the screen now to access the survey. Your feedback is valuable to us, and it's used to improve future events and should only take you a couple of minutes to complete. So, we would really value your input. Hope you enjoyed this session on asbestos safety, courtesy of Workplace Health and Safety Queensland and the Office of Industrial Relations. That's it from us for today as we put the focus on Asbestos Awareness Week 2023. Bye for now and please work safe, home safe.