Asbestos safety session 2022

- Hello everyone and welcome to our asbestos safety session for 2022. Thank you so much for joining us. Great to have your company. My name is Chris and I'll be the MC for today's session, which should run for a little bit over an hour. Thank you for streaming all over this big, beautiful state of Queensland and of course for helping us celebrate what is Asbestos Awareness Week, which runs until the 27th of November, a week that focuses solely on how to live and work safely with asbestos. I know you're gonna get a huge amount of value out of today's session from our incredible speakers have got lined up here for you today because one in three Australian homes contain asbestos and of course that affects a wide variety of people from homeowners to tradies to DIYs, demolishers, and of course, asbestos removalists. And so I know that you are gonna get so much value out of today. Before we go too much further, I would like to acknowledge and pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land in which we meet today and all over this big beautiful country and to pay respect to their continuing connection to waters, land and culture and pay our respect to elders past, present and emerging. You know, I worked in the construction industry and demolishing about 23, 25 years ago. And certainly there was nothing like Asbestos Awareness Week back then or entities as such as Workplace Health and Safety to tell us about the risks of asbestos. We were simply handed a sledge hammer and said, go at it. There was no safety equipment and no mask. So to have this sort of presentation to tell you all about the risks associated with asbestos, I think is a brilliant thing. So we're gonna have a brilliant time in this session here today. A little bit of housekeeping before we go further, at the end of our four brilliant speakers that we have for you today, we're gonna have a panel discussion, a Q&A where you will have the opportunity to ask any and all questions you'd like to ask related to asbestos, of course. Now to do that, you simply put your name and your question into the chat box to the right of your streaming session. If you have any technical difficulties whatsoever throughout the entirety of the presentation, once again, put your name and your question in the chat box and our amazing team will endeavor to help you straight away. If you want to change the size of your screen at any point in time, you can certainly do so by looking for the four small arrows down at the bottom near the volume bar and we can sort that out as well. And any troubles with that of course, again, you can see our team and just ask them a question in the chat box. So let's get into it. Our first presentation, folks, is about the safe management of asbestos in Queensland. There's certainly no one better to talk about that than the Executive Director of Engagement and Policy Services at the Workplace Health and Safety Queensland. A massive welcome to Jodie Deakes.

- [Jodie] Hello, Chris, thanks for that.

- [Chris] How you doing?

- [Jodie] I'm doing great. It's a beautiful day in Queensland.

- [Chris] It is.

- Just wanna welcome you all to Asbestos Week. As Chris said, this is just an enormous week that hopefully we can all benefit from. And at the end of the day we just wanna protect the community, protect workers and make sure everyone's able out there to do the right thing. So welcome everyone to a great week.

- Well we've got a great opportunity to, and deep into your intellectual property cause there's a lot in that brain. I just wanna start with this one. I think it's a really important question. I've got a few here. So with the number of asbestos related diseases in Queensland, what is the Queensland government doing to ensure the safe management of asbestos and not just for workers but for the community as a whole?

- Yeah, Chris, look, asbestos is a serious issue and it requires a really big serious response. The Queensland government has, as part of the last election, created an election commitment, which I'm happy to say has been completed. And that was to create another three year statewide asbestos plan. And that's been committed across all the nine agencies who contribute to this. 'Cause it's not just Health and Safety Queensland, there are a number of agencies who play in this space. So yeah, so we've created that strategic plan. It has been implemented. It's on our website if you wanna have a look at it. And it really does aim to make sure that we've got a coordinated approach across Queensland. We're all working together, so there's no cracks in what happens and nothing falls through that crack.

- Well that's good news. And so in terms of, let's just deep dive into that plan as well. So the state wide strategic plan, there's four key areas in that. Can you sort of expand on that for us?

- Yeah, yeah, I would love to. We've got 23 actions in this plan that cover across four areas. First one is around awareness. So we know that we need to be able to influence behaviors out in the community, be it a worker, be it a piece, an employer or anyone in the community to make sure that firstly they understand and know, and based on that knowledge of that risk, they make a choice to be safer and to do the right thing with asbestos. So the first area is around awareness. The second one is we need to be able to identify and manage asbestos, be it situ, which means in a building, in a piece of plant, naturally occurring and anything that might have been imported before. So we need to make sure we're doing that. And that requires quite a bit of work around ensuring there's audits undertaken, that there's clear guidelines about how you manage asbestos. You know that you've gotta register if it's in a building that you own, there's a register of where it is. And you're managing that well, and that means if you're about to do any changes to that property, people know what they're dealing with before they deal with it. So identifying and manage is really important. Safe removal and transport and disposal. Bit of a journey there from go to whoa. There are a number of agencies who play in that, Environment, local council, Health and Safety Queensland, there's licensing around that. We need to make sure firstly it comes out correctly by the right trained asbestos removalists. We need to make sure the licensing around transport and the disposal ports and where they are, are identified and known and then it's done properly based on the legislation. We do enforcement the whole way through. But as I said, awareness is really important. Dumping something on the side of the road in a bush not only is illegal, but it also puts the community at risk. It puts people who can come into contact with that and it requires a whole lot of cleanup later. And the fourth area is coordinated regulation and standards. So we need to make sure the law, the legislation, the standards we have in this state give effect to all the risks associated, disregardless which nigh entity that sits in our agency that sits in. And not only do we have to have it, we need to make sure it's explained and people understand what they need to do in terms of that standard. And then we need to follow up. If people aren't doing the right thing, we will do compliance and we will do enforcement activity because it's just not acceptable not to follow the law in relation to this high risk.

- So this seems simplistic to ask this question off the back of what you've just expanded on the strategic plan, but how will this improve asbestos regulation in Queensland from what is existing already?

- Well, you know, it makes it clearer. We are getting research and intelligence always helps us to identify and make sure that all the standards and law that we've got is really clear. It also helps us make sure that we understand who we're reaching in the community. At the end of the day, this is about protecting the community and protecting workers. We're gonna do everything we can with those 23 actions across those four areas to make sure that happens.

- When you say when that happens, what assurance can be given that the 23 action items will be undertaken and carried out?

- Look, we developed this plan over a period of time. We deal with a lot of stakeholders, a lot of people in the community who have a role in asbestos, be it in a government agency or other. And the government committed to that, our ministers committed to it and as has all the ministers across this field. And it's governed by an interagency asbestos group, that's a fancy name for a group of people, regulators and others who come together, the nine of us come together in this state. We have committed to the actions in it, we've committed to the dates, we have to provide annual reports on them and we make sure that we are keeping an eye on that. So I'm lucky to be the chair of that group, work with a lot of really motivated people in this space. So we got a clear plan and we're gonna be held to account.

- No rock unturned. Seems like you're doing absolutely everything you possibly can to ensure the wider community is safe. So I can understand there's also a national asbestos strategic plan. How does that marry up or coincide with the Queensland plans if at all?

- Yeah, it does. It really aligns. Asbestos is not just a Queensland issue. It's in other states and territories and we work very closely across this country to learn from each other, to leverage off the stuff we build and use. But also at a national level, we've got the Asbestos Safety Eradication Agency. They do an amazing job across all of us and they've got a council that I'm lucky to be on as well. Really motivated group.

- How do you find the time, Jodie?

- Oh God, when it comes to something like this, the time is nothing. And we work really well together to make sure that those areas I was talking about before are together that we are looking at those solutions. So our plans really align. We're focused together on what we have to do. And if you have a look at ASEAS's website as well, you'll see a lot of other material that happens in that space. But yeah, we have to be aligned across this country. It's not just a Queensland issue to solve.

- This last question I think is a huge one. So there are many building materials that of course are made of asbestos. How can we recognize these building materials and how would you know if these materials are in the home that we live in or in the place that we work? Massive question.

- Yeah, look, it's really difficult when you're not a technical specialist or an expert in this field to say, am I actually coming in contact with asbestos? Basically if you've got a property at home, whatever, before 1990, it's likely you're gonna have some asbestos in it. As part of this Asbestos Week, I'm really happy today to launch something of a first and through our technical area and our comms people and all these amazing people who've helped, we are launching four films. And those four films go from homes from the fifties to the nineties. And you'll see in a minute the walkthrough and what that looks like in terms of identifying asbestos. And I just think that we as government and agencies, it's on us to make sure that whatever we produce people can understand, it reaches the right people and it makes things safer and enables you to make a choice. So I'm really happy right now. We're gonna show you one from the 1950s. But please, on our website you will see all four films and please link to them, share them, help us get them out there because at the end of the day we just want workers in the community to be safe.

- [Chris] Here it is.

- Hello everyone. I'm here at this 1950s residence with our asbestos expert, Steve. Now Steve's gonna guide us through this property to show us where we might find asbestos containing material. How do we actually know it's a 1950s home?

- The casement windows, there are timber casement windows. This is before aluminum windows were introduced. And you can also see that the chamfer boards are five inch hardwood and that's indicative of the 1950s. Right, I've come into this 1950s style home, I've just identified that it appears to be asbestos containing material like the sheeting and the ceiling. I can identify it by the cloud head nails and the cover strips. Looking over towards the wall, I can see also some protruding nail heads there and also a V joint. We've come into the kitchen area now and I've noticed that in the ceiling here we also got an asbestos containing material or fibro product. You can see the protruding nails and also the cover strips, a demold, and then I'm looking on the floor. Now the floor is a product called a sheet vinyl. It's a domestic sheet vinyl. The backing to that sheet vinyl is an asbestos containing material. The toilet also has got wall sheetings, got protruding nails, the ceiling's got protruding nails. The homeowner started some renovation work, and as they're renovating they've come across that this bathroom has been renovated before. And the sheeting on the walls behind the tiles are asbestos free. But what noticeably that's there is low density board which backs onto the kitchen. That's what the board looks like on the stud. It is a whitish gray material to maybe like a blue ting in it. And that's how you identify it. We've entered into this room, which is used as an office inside this house. We've got two different types of asbestos products here. We've got the asbestos containing material like in the fibro sheeting. We also got the wall sheeting here, which has been identified as low density board manufactured with a calcium silicate and a high content of asbestos. Where on the low density board when they nailed it, you can't even see the finished product where it's been nailed. What we've got here is we've got soffit heating. You can see that this is an asbestos containing material. Now in this particular soffit you can notice there's a diamond pattern and those holes would've been drilled into it to assist in the venting within the roof cavity. What we've got here, you've got a cast iron pipes made outta metal, but from the gray paint all out through the ceiling, that is an asbestos vent pipe and that vents out the sewage line.

- Well Steve, you've taken us through a fifties style house. What should I do if I find asbestos in my place?

- Well, if you got a home similar to this, I wouldn't panic about it 'cause as long as the product is installed and there's no sign of wear and tear, no one's abrading in the product, the product would remain safe.

- Okay then. But what's the safest way to remove it if it needs to be removed?

- With this particular home here, we've identified low density board and sheet vinyl. Those require an A class business holder to do the removal. Not a B class. These two products are friable.

- Okay, well that sounds fairly specific. I've got a couple of tradie mates. If I had a house similar to this, could I get them in to do my asbestos removal?

- No, they are not to touch the friable, the sheet vinyl or the low density board unless their business holds that license. The bonded material, which is the normal sheeting like the soffits, as long as they had the adequate training and awareness and follow the safe work procedures and wear the correct PPE, they're allowed to remove up to 10 square meters but the friable is not permissible.

- Fantastic advice, Steve. And if you've got any more questions about some of the issues that we've raised today, remember, go online and visit asbestos.qld.gov.au.

- Well, I think you can all agree just how truly impressive that video was. Of course that was a film covering houses in the fifties. I think it perfectly outlined how to recognize asbestos, something I've never seen before. And it's worth mentioning that is the first delivery from the Queensland statewide plan. And as Jodi mentioned, it's just the first of four films. There's three others covering the sixties, seventies, and eighties. As Chris Bombalas just mentioned, if you want to check them out, I highly encourage you to do so and share them as far and wide as you possibly can. Once again, asbestos.qld.gov.au. It's fantastic to see that Workplace Health and Safety Queensland, the Office of Industrial Relations, are doing incredible work under that Queensland statewide plan. And of course in alignment with the nationwide plan as well. It just seems we're in good hands. If you have any questions, of course for Jodie, like I mentioned at the start of our presentation, we're gonna have a Q&A panel session at the end of our session here today. So you can ask a question to all of our panelists and certainly do so. Once again, question and your name into the chat box and we'll make sure that gets asked at the end of the session. Folks, our next presentation, two amazing humans that have an important yet a tragic story to tell. Julie and Don Sager's son, Adam, tragically died at the tender age of 25 from asbestos related disease, mesothelioma. And so that you and so many people you know don't go through what not only their son Adam went through, but also what they went through, they've dedicated their time to being safety advocates to raise awareness and education for the risks associated with asbestos. It's fantastic to have them here today and I would love to present to you, Julie and Don Sager.

- Thank you. Here we go again. It's nearly Christmas and we get to have Christmas again without Adam. This will be 16 years and it feels like yesterday. We get the pleasure of being Adam's parents and I can't tell you how proud we are of who he was as a little boy and as an adult and who he would be now. Adam was a retail manager in Brisbane, living in Brisbane and had his own company. He was looking at doing things to help young kids. He was also studying social work. He was studying, working towards the world championships for his chosen martial art. He used to get very upset with me 'cause I could never remember the name. It was called Haedong Kumdo and I used to call it bok choy, so he'd be most upset with me for that. And every time I think about it, I think he'd wanna smack me. He'd absolutely grown into himself and was a really naughty, but lovely, lovely man. He was also a naughty but lovely, lovely little boy and we didn't do him any justice. In 1983, we built a house in Townsville. Was our first home, a kit home and it was prefabricated and the installation was on the inside of the prefabricated panels and there were warnings on that but it was actually printed on the inside also. So Donna and I thought we were doing the right thing by our family and we sanded and painted the walls. We were in a brand new subdivision and we were so good at this that we thought we were doing the right thing by keeping Adam safe. We even locked all the doors and windows. And 24 years later, that's where we were in 2006. In 2006, I woke to a phone call from Adam to say he wasn't coming home this weekend. I think my words to him may have been something like, what now? What's more important than coming home to say goodbye to your sister? She was going to start her life in Adelaide. And he said, I'm in hospital and they've just taken 1.5 liters of fluid off my lungs. So that was the first time I had to choose between my children and I don't think any parents should have to choose between their children. That started six weeks around about of Adam being in hospital. He used to ring us every morning at quarter to seven and say, where are you? And we'd say, we're on our way. We're lost 'cause we're not from Brisbane. And he would... It would be a long day. He'd meet us at the lift with his hat on backwards and his long skinny jeans and an ICC unit attached to his lungs and he'd use it as a skateboard down the hallway. And that was typical Adam. Nothing held him back. He lived every moment of every day, even when he felt ordinary. That's how he lived his life. He used to have to remind the doctors that even though he was 24 at that stage, that we were his parents and he needed us to know as much information as possible. So the day that we took him home so that he could have a shower in his own home, his phone rang and I answered his phone, which I've never done. Pleased I did that day because it was the specialist telling me that he had malignant mesothelioma and he'd be dead in six months. We then had to find out where that came from and how that would affect him. His words at that stage were, it's all good, they don't know me. We had to sit back and watch him. He steered the ship, we fueled the ship and he had full control of this horrible, disgusting disease. Mesothelioma is only from exposure to asbestos. We didn't really know what we were doing 1983. And in this age at 2022... 2022. It's bizarre. There's no excuse for ignorance. There's so much information. There's so many people you can ask. There's so many things you can do. I just hate to think people are still coming in contact with this. They're still being ignorant. They're still not working out how not to live this life. Like, how do you wake up and think every morning that my son's not alive because it's something that we accidentally did because we had no idea. And people still use that excuse now and I just don't understand it. It will astound me forever. It's a painful cancer that grows on the lining in between the lining of the lungs and the pleura. So it's actually like peanut butter and Adam's lungs filled with fluid to try and combat that. So he lost the use of one lung. It traveled across the lining of his heart into the other lung. So he only had a portion of one lung left. So we used to lay beside him to try and help him breathe at nighttime thinking that if he could get rhythm with us. And I remember sometimes thinking if I lay here long enough, he might get better and if he passes away, I won't tell anybody 'cause I can just still lay here. And this is why we do what we do now because I don't want anyone to have to feel like that. Like there's no reason now anyone should have to go through what we went through. He couldn't breathe. He had permanent oxygen for a long time. Sorry. And it meant he was in a wheelchair for the last three months of his life. He wouldn't go out of the house without Tegan. So we'd have to wait for her to come home from work so that she could wheel his wheelchair 'cause he didn't trust me. 'Cause I think I might have told him once, if he didn't behave, I was gonna throw him in the river. But he lived that life and he lived it with great dignity and with so much strength that I couldn't be a prouder person. We didn't talk death with Adam. We talked about, again, fueling the ship and taking him for treatments. Chemotherapy didn't work for him. There have been changes in that now, but I think we can avoid all of those by not working with asbestos or working with it the right way, keeping it contained, keeping it in good condition, keeping it painted, knowing what you're dealing with. I always feel that we have an obligation to our family to keep them safe and to educate ourselves into how we can deal with any product that we come across in our house. We still deal with it today. And Adam would've educated himself. He would've also wanted to educate his family and he never had an opportunity to do that. He never was married, he never became a father and he would've been wonderful at all of those things.

- From what we understand, there's still 700 people a year dying in Australia from mesothelioma alone. There's other asbestos diseases that you can get, From our association with one of the support societies here in Brisbane that they had 15 calls in the first quarter of this year, and three of those were asbestos mesothelioma cancers. What we did was, was work on a brand new house. And Julie and I were both in the same room as as our son Adam. And he was just the bystander. He was the guy in the corner just playing happily while we were doing the work. He wasn't the one even touching the gear that we were using, the sandpaper, the cleaning up material. so we'd rather remember when we get people into our houses to do the work, are they prepared to do it safely because they're going to leave you with the problem. So we've gotta start using license registered people to do our removals. It's the only safest way of doing it. You can't use your vacuum cleaner from home to clean up after you've made a mistake. That's just then transferring it through the house.

- There are a few diseases that may come when you're working with asbestos or come in contact with asbestos. The major ones are mesothelioma, which is the cancer, pleural plaques and asbestosis. And there is a little bit more longevity with those, the latter two. And when Adam was diagnosed, the average lifespan was 153 days. That's five months approximate. I think it's a little longer now. Adam actually lived 10 months, so we felt very blessed. We don't really know how to fix this. We actually thought when we started being advocates that it would probably last a few months. I know that the Dust and Diseases Tribunal when it was originally formed many, many years ago, only had one fellow in there as the clerk and they didn't think it would last very long. We've got so many waves of this coming through. It's not just houses built within the fifties and sixties and seventies, it's houses being renovated. We have an obligation to people who are renovating, to people who are coming in houses. We're doing it ourselves. You have to get someone who's licensed. You need to know what product. We wouldn't actually put our children in the car and out of a car seat just to go around the corner. So why would you want your family in a house where you don't know what it is or particularly if you were doing some renovations? I would've been the first person who would've said to Don, I'm eight months pregnant and it's 33 degrees, can you put the air conditioner in the wall please? I would've been that nagging wife that said, please, it's been sitting in that box for some time. And I think we have an obligation again to find out if you want to do things like that yourself, find out what's in the walls, find out what's around you, find out what you're buying online, that you're bringing into your homes. We all talk about it's cheaper to get a kitchen from overseas than it is to order one here from Australia because of labor costs and all the rest of it. But a lot of those kitchens can have asbestos containing materials in them. What price do you put on a life of somebody that you love? I'll never, ever understand how it can be so hard to just get things tested and to try what we need to do. So we're very dedicated to this. It's not something we do easily. It's not something we get up every morning and think, yay, we get to go and do this. It is something that we think this is Adam's legacy and Adam was absolutely somebody who wanted to help people achieve the goals that they wanted to do. He wanted to help people do what they needed to do and this is the only way that we can actually do something that means something to him. We couldn't actually save him but we may just be able to save somebody else. Good.

- [Don] Thank you.

- Well thank you so much, Julian and Don, I certainly can't even imagine, I can't fathom the courage it takes to tell that story. But they tell that story so no one else has to. So I think on behalf of everyone watching a truly heartfelt, thank you. Thank you so much. Folks, if that doesn't hit home, I'm not sure what will. But we do have so much more information to impart to you over the course of the next half hour. And now we're gonna be talking about the new requirements for low density asbestos fiber board. And to take us through all that entails in that, I'd like to introduce you to the Director of Occupational Health, Hygiene and Asbestos from Workplace Health and Safety of Queensland, a massive welcome to Steven Gillies.

- Thank you, Chris. And again, I just wanted to echo your sentiments and a big thank you to the Sager's for telling your story. So impactful. And hopefully my presentation will highlight an asbestos product potentially in your home that you need to be aware of, particularly with recent changes last year. So low density board. Before I go into the recent changes, I wanted to start with a bit of a brief overview on what the material is. It's very similar looking to an asbestos cement sheet or plaster board, however, the material is significantly softer, lighter and more pliable. It's sometimes often referred to as asbestos insulation board or AIB. The product was manufactured in the 1950s to the 1970s and came as both a flat and a perforated sheet. If your home was constructed after 1982, it's significantly less likely that the product will be present. Now the big difference between LDB and an asbestos cement sheet and one of the reasons for the changes was the asbestos. LDB can contain up to 70% asbestos. In comparison, an asbestos fiber cement sheet will have somewhere between 5-20% asbestos. Now the asbestos content is one thing. There's also amosite and chrysotile within that product. The other real difference between an asbestos cement sheet and LDB is just how easily it can be torn and damaged. It takes very minimal dam resistance for that material to tear and rip, unlike a asbestos cement sheet, which will tend to snap rather than tear. Two of the most common products are names for LDB are Asbestoslux and Duralux. If you're working in a ceiling space you may see those brand names present, but I just wanted to put a big disclaimer on this presentation that just because you don't see those stamps or those trade names does not mean that the product is asbestos free. LDB was manufactured for both commercial and residential applications, so it could be it in workplaces or in your home. And it was used in applications where thermal or acoustic insulation such as ceiling tiles, wall and ceiling line linings. But it all can also be found on external eaves. I've got some examples here. This is the perforated sheet that I mentioned earlier. And the photo on the right is an asbestos ceiling tile. And on the on the left we've got someone that's used that asbestos LDB ceiling tile to store their tools. As I mentioned earlier, LDB tears really easily. So the photo on the left here is following the removal of an LDB sheet and you can see how easily it's torn and the jagged edges to that material. On the right hand side, we've got a comparison between asbestos cement sheeting and an LDB sheet. So as I mentioned earlier, you can kind of tell on the edges there, the LDB will tear and rip rather than snap. So some tips on identifying LDB. As I've mentioned a couple times now, it will tear and leave ragged torn edges. AC sheeting snaps and breaks, leaving sharp edges. Another tip for identifying LDB is looking at the fasteners and the nails that are used to secure the material. Because LDB is so soft, those nails will be embedded in the sheet, whereas on a fiber cement board, you'll see the nails protruding outta the surface because it is so hard. Here's an example of what I'm talking about here . On the left, you can see the nail is embedded in the material and on the right you can see fiber cement sheeting where the now head is sitting proud of the material. So tips for identifying LDB. The visible branding that we mentioned earlier, the Duralux, et cetera. You can also find these bevel edges on the ceiling tiles, which are also a really good indicator of LDB. Here's an example if you were enter entering into your ceiling space. You might see these brand names here, Asbestolux. Unfortunately it is often on the back of the material, so if it's a wall lining, you're not gonna be able to see that. But being being able to access the ceiling space, you can often identify that branding. This is a little trick you can do to try and identify LDB. Using a screwdriver and light pressure, if you push the screwdriver into an LDB surface it will leave a indentation. Now that will not happen with an asbestos cement sheet. The material is too hard and it will not leave that indentation. So now I'm gonna talk a little bit about why we made the change as a regulator. LDB with its significantly higher asbestos content and its tendency to break more easily in its pliable nature makes it a more hazardous material than something like a non-friable asbestos sheet. So these were the the reasons that we made this change. So what is the change? Previously LDB could be determined by a licensed assessor or a competent person. So they would make that decision on site as to whether it was friable or non-friable. We have now changed that all LDB is now classified as a friable material. That was following a review of the asbestos content and the properties of the material. So all work Health and Safety Queensland guidance on LDB will now refer to it as a friable material. So as I mentioned, this change to a friable product reflects the risk posed by the material. So I probably should have put this at the start, but a friable product, what is it? What's the difference between a friable and a non-friable? A non-friable product is those fiber cement sheets, they're hard products. friable products can be pulverized via hand pressure and turned to a dust. And that's the case with LDB because it is so soft. What are the implications for homeowners? Well, LDB is now a friable ACM product and cannot be removed under the 10 square meter rule. If you wanna remove LDB from your home, you need to contact an A class asbestos removalist to undertake that work. If you're a tradie or a contractor, there are some approved work methods for conducting maintenance and service on LDB. These are all available on our website, but they include some minor repairs, painting undamaged LDB, drilling holes up to 30 millimeters, and temporarily moving LDB ceiling tiles and installing or moving fixtures or fittings to LDB. Now if you are a tradie or a contractor and you're wanting to undertake those approved work method statements, you need to be trained in LDB. That's identifying it, donning and removing the relevant PPE, decontaminating yourself, your equipment and your work environment and the transport of asbestos waste / And Work Health Safety Queensland can ask you for evidence of that completed training. Now for licensed asbestos removalists. Class B license holders are no longer permitted to remove LDB. Class A removalists can continue to remove LDB under friable asbestos removal conditions. And if you want any further information on low density board or any other information on asbestos, they can all be found at the Work Health Safety Queensland asbestos.gov.au. Thank you.

- Thank you so much, Steven. Some brilliant information on LDB. Once again, if you've got any questions whatsoever for any of our presenters thus far, of course, Jodie, Julie, Don, and Steven please once again, put your name and your question in the chat box. I'm gonna have that Q&A at the end of our session. We just got one last speaker with a very important subject to talk about the high pressure water blasting of asbestos materials and certainly no one better to talk a great deal on that is the Chief Asbestos Advisor from Workplace Health and Safety Queensland, a massive welcome to John Snooks.

- Thank you Chris for the introduction. Today I'd like to present high pressure water blasting of asbestos roofs. Before I'd start, just a quick overview of what asbestos is and why it was used. It was basically used widely in building materials in Australia post World War II up to the mid 1980s. It was easily obtained, cheap to mine, so it's naturally occurring mineral. The asbestos properties present a great opportunity use in the fact they're flexible, high tensile strength and they're great binding product in the materials. They insulate from heat and they're non-conductive to electricity and chemically inert. And they were used in over 3000 products. So in the eighties, mid-eighties, we started phasing out asbestos use in Australia. And then at 31st of December, 2003, it was banned in Australia nationally from its use and importation. So generally, if you're a homeowner and your house was built before the mid 1980s, it's highly likely that your house will contain asbestos containing materials. And if your house is built between the mid 1980s and 1990, it is likely that your house will contain asbestos products. And then after 1990, it is unlikely that asbestos containing materials will be present in your property, although it's still possible in a house after 1990 that you can contain some asbestos containing materials. So if you go to the asbestos.queensland.gov.au, "Know Where Asbestos is Present" in the website, you'd be able to see a lot of pictures of homes where you can see where asbestos is. So we'll concentrate on asbestos roofs. So there's different types of asbestos roofs. You can get shingles on the left or your double knot shingles on the right. The ones on the left can look like slate from a distance. So it's important not to confuse those with a slate tile roof. Here's some super six roofing sheeting. The one on the left is painted and it's of the Tuscan style, and the one on the right is unpainted with longer sheets. One clue to identifying an asbestos roof is the ridge capping is much larger than an iron roof. And when you look at the supers six sheeting, they're much larger profile than the current iron roofs as well. Here's a close up of a standard corrugated asbestos roof. Here you can see it's dark gray in color from the weathering over 50 years. If you have a look, the thickness of the sheets, they're much thicker than a normal iron roof as well. And another telltale sign that could be an asbestos roof, if you've got those diamond washes that you can see in that picture, then it's more than likely an asbestos roof. Again, website. Also, we've got a publication as well, "A Guide For Minor Renovations". So if you are home renovating, I urge you to go into the Queensland website, download this brochure and identify where asbestos can be inside your property. If you do identify asbestos or you suspect there's asbestos in your home, engage a licensed asbestos removalist to conduct all works with asbestos. If you are going to do it yourself, we at least ask you to comply with the law and don't remove greater than 10 square meters of non-friable asbestos. You're not allowed to remove any friable asbestos, and you're not allowed to clean up any more than a minor quantity of asbestos, dust or debris. So we've had a recent spate of high pressure water spraying of asbestos roofs around Queensland. Since 2016. we've had 52 reported, and of those 52, 34 have been persons conducting a business or undertaking or being paid for those works. The average cost to fix up and clean up the asbestos mess has been around $88,000. And if you are the person that's pulling the trigger on the asbestos roof, you're expected to pay that amount for the cleanup. In the more complex cases, remediation can cost up to $200,000 to clean up multiple properties. So as you can see in the graph below, we get an increased number of high pressure spraying incidents being reported. So Work Health Safety regulations. Regulation number 446, there's a duty to limit use of equipment. So a person conducting a business undertaking must not use or direct or allow a worker to use either of the following on asbestos. There's a high pressure water spray or compressed air except in the circumstances of putting out a fire. So who's conducting the spraying? Generally homeowners are engaging people from Airtasker, High Pages, Facebook Marketplace and other places like that. Or we have had a spade of door knockers as well. They'll come and knock on your door. They'll say they've got the same color paint as your roof left over from previous job and they'll give you cheap price to come and paint your roof. Also, some painters and home handymen, high pressure spraying and cleaning for painting. So why do people spray the pressure roofs? Well, generally the homeowners, the roof might be covered in moss, it looks dirty, it's weathered, it's dark gray, it's not looking good, the paint's peeling off or they wanna fix a leak. So here you can see this is a roof that's been high pressure sprayed. That dark gray weathering has been taken off the top and it's back to a nice shiny white sheet. But unfortunately, when they high pressure spray the roof, it destroys the top surface of the asbestos containing material. It weakens the cement sheet. Now cement sheets are brittle to begin with and you're at risk when you're on top of that roof of falling through it. Once you've taken the top one or two millimeters layer off the top of the roof, it becomes thinner and it's even more dangerous to tread on. And it spreads the contamination. Now it's quite often the contamination's not only on the primary yard that it's done, but it also sprays across to the neighboring properties as well. So if you suspect you might have an asbestos roof, what do you do? Get the roof tested, engage professional. Get that sample taken to a NATA credited laboratory and they'll be able to let you know if it's asbestos containing or not. If it is an asbestos roof and you wanna get rid of the moss that's growing on top of it, use a fungicide. Spray it on, give it time to die and fall off the roof. And then you can buy specific made sealer that will seal to the top of the asbestos roof before you paint it the color you're after. Or you could replace your roof, then it's never a problem into the future. And again, on the asbestos website, there's a document there giving you guidance on how to deal with an asbestos roof. So when we high pressure spray an asbestos roof, if the roof's painted, we can get what's on the left. And that's a big paint flake with the top of the asbestos roof taken off. And you can see all the asbestos fibers stuck to the back of the paint. On the right we have like a paper mache material that's full of asbestos fibers and the cement matrix as well, and that splatters everywhere and sticks to everything. Here's an internal courtyard of an asbestos roof that was sprayed. Here you can see all the paint flakes contaminating the ground and all the paper mache material. And that's a heavily contaminated grass area. And when we have to clean that up, all the contaminated ground surfaces have to be removed and all the house surfaces have to be wiped down and it takes a lot of time. Here's a close up of a full restraint system on a roof, and you can see on the left there, that's absolutely covered with asbestos debris. And on the right you can see how aggressive the high pressure spraying is of the roof material taken it right back to that clean light gray color. Here's a concrete path after a high pressure spraying incident. You can see that the person who did the spraying, this is where they got interrupted, they were trying to clean off the concrete. That concrete path that's nearly all asbestos fibers that stuck on that with the grass being contaminated by the asbestos fibers and the paint flecks as well. In this picture, the concrete path on the left, that had to be disposed of. We could not clean out the big cracks in that concrete path. So it's just easy to get rid of it and dispose of it as asbestos waste. Again, here's some vegetation close to the house that was high pressure sprayed. It's extremely covered with asbestos debris. All that plants, all your garden has to be removed and it's all taken back to ground level during the remediation as well. Again, any private property, if that gets covered in asbestos containing material, if it can't be decontaminated, then we have to throw it out. Now particular risk on soft fabric materials, we cannot get fibers out of that. So if you've got outdoor furniture, children's pushers, car seats, et cetera, all that has to be disposed of and end up losing a lot of your personal possessions. So I'd like to finish off on the Queensland government website for asbestos. We have a video and we're gonna play that. And this is how you deal the asbestos roof if you have one.

- A clean roof can make your house look fantastic, but if you've got an asbestos roof, there's a few things you'll need to consider to keep you and your neighborhood safe from deadly asbestos fibers. If your house was built before the 1990s, there's a good chance it could contain asbestos. Often hiding in plain sight, asbestos fibers and dusts can cause cancer.

- Look at this roof. It's corrugated, not made of metal, installed before 1990, a sure sign it's an asbestos roof, commonly known as super six. Well maintained asbestos isn't going to hurt you. However, damaging or disturbing asbestos can release dangerous fibers into the air.

- Using high pressure water such as a water blaster or high pressure hose on asbestos is particularly harmful and illegal. Water blasting asbestos can spread fibers across a very large area, not only on your property but neighboring properties as well. These fibers stick to everything, walls, plants, garden, soil and lawns, and will be there for years, if not decades, Unless you remove them, the asbestos fibers can become airborne every time you disturb the area. For example, when you mow the lawn. Worse still, you can walk the asbestos fibers into your home on your shoes.

- The only way to remove the fibers is to dig up your gardens and lawns and chop down plants. Basically, your gardens and lawns have to be completely removed just like at these homes. As well as the cost of decontaminating your home and your neighbor's home, there are heavy fines for water blasting asbestos. So be aware of dodgy operators offering to clean asbestos roofs. You may still be held responsible even if you didn't clean the asbestos roof yourself.

- Never use high pressure water to clean your asbestos roof. There are lots of safe alternatives on the market that have been specifically designed for asbestos roofs, including surface primers, fungicides, and paints. Better still, why don't you consider having your roof replaced using modern materials if possible?

- [Peter] Remember, never use high pressure water on asbestos roofs. It's not worth the risk to the health of you, your family and neighbors.

- Fantastic. Well thank you so much, John. Well now we go into our last component for our brilliant presentation here today as part of our asbestos safety session for 2022. This is our panel session with all of our presenters. I just wanna say thank you to all of our presenters, Jodie, Julie, Don, Steven and John. Don and John, thank you so much for being with us today and let's get into it. So our first question here today, and thanks to everyone for putting through your questions for our presenters. First one, Julie and Don is for you. What should I do when someone comes to do some work at my place and I have a suspicion that there may be asbestos present?

- We had done that situation when we first moved into our house in Brisbane and we were lucky that when we bought the house, we did do an assessment of the house with respect to asbestos. We had samples taken and had it tested in a a registered laboratory. And we've got a report that says where all our asbestos is. So when an anyone comes into our house, we're aware of how old it is. We are aware of where the asbestos is and we point that out to them and then we ask them questions. Do you work with asbestos? Have you been trained in working with asbestos? How are you treated before you start your work?

- Are you licensed?

- Are you licensed to remove any?

- We've had cause to have some asbestos removed, but we've always used a registered license removalist and they've done a cleanup better than what we left the room in for them to move in to remove the asbestos. They've done an excellent job every time. So all I can say to you first is if you've got a house that you think is asbestos, get it tested to find out for sure. If someone comes into your house to do some work, show them the report that that tells them where the asbestos is and get the assurance that they know what they're doing from them.

- Well answered, Don. I certainly hope that answers your question. I think you did quite comprehensively. Now our next question, Steven, it's right in your wheelhouse, mate. I have LDB at my business and solicited as non-friable on the asbestos register. Do I need to get it updated?

- Yeah, thanks Chris. Look, I guess the real risk here is that if you're undertaking works in your business and a tradie comes in to look at that asbestos register and they don't see any friable products on there, they may assume that they can undertake works at that site. So that does need to be updated to reflect that it is a friable product and that will alert any tradies coming into the business that they can't undertake works on that product or they need to undertake works using the approved methods that Work Health Safety Queensland have provided.

- Thank you, mate. Our next question, John, we go to you. What about electricians? I have to remove down lights from asbestos ceilings.

- Thank you, Chris. My recommendation, if you're removing down lights from asbestos ceiling, there's a chance that there is asbestos containing dust that's sitting up around the top of that down light. So you need to approach it with caution. Wear your PPE, wet it down where you can obviously not as a risk to expose yourself to an electrical shock, and put a plastic drop sheet on the ground and just do it gently so that you don't put asbestos fibers everywhere.

- Beautiful, mate. Thank you. Steve, we you go back to you, it seems like the chat box getting some heavy traffic for you. Living in a fifties style rental home, there are no stickers advising asbestos. Should there be stickers?

- Not in a residential situation. Stickers would be commonly found at a business to alert tradies that are undertaking works on that site to the presence of asbestos containing material. And that would be positioned in accordance with the register. But certainly not in a rental property you wouldn't expect to see asbestos stickers. But that again, need to be still cautious if you are instructing anybody to undertake works on the property and if you're unsure, get that material tested at an NATA accredited lab.

- Thank you, mate. Our next question is for Jodie. How was the IAG formed?

- Well, the IAG came out of the need to get a coordinated approach across Queensland in terms of how all the different agencies were managing the risk of asbestos to workers and the community. So there was an ombudsman report and that identified the need to coordinate. So there was a first plan put in place and there was a lot done in there. And then now we've got the second one, as I was saying. So it really came out because there was a real need to coordinate across all the agencies and not do this in a separate way.

- Thank you, Jodie. Our next question is for John. John, what happens if the asbestos in my roof comes into my home?

- Unfortunately, we've had a few of these lately where a roof's been high pressure sprayed and residents and neighbors haven't been aware of it and they've tracked it into their home. This then brings asbestos debris, contaminates their carpets, possibly their clothing, couches, et cetera. So if you're aware that an asbestos roof has been sprayed, our advice is to move out of your home until it can be fixed so you don't bring that inside and then start losing your possessions. Because once those soft possessions get contaminated, we can't decontaminate 'em and they're contaminated for life then and we need to dispose 'em so that you can maintain or you can stay in your property long term without breathing in asbestos fibers.

- Thank you so much, mate. So Steven, this one is for you. What are the rules to painting outside asbestos eaves?

- Yeah, sure. So painting asbestos material is fine. What you need to keep in mind that the use of any power tools, so if you are planning on sanding that material, you cannot use a powered sander on asbestos containing material. The risk there is that you're gonna generate a huge amount of asbestos fibers and potentially expose yourself. So when you're painting any asbestos containing material, my advice is always to minimize the disturbance of the material as much as possible. So if there's a potential to not sand at all and just paint over the previous surface that that would be ideal.

- Thank you, Steven. And next question, back to you, John. I have an asbestos roof, how do I know if the person, this is a brilliant question. Have an asbestos roof, how do I know if the person I get to clean my roof is a legitimate business and can do the work safely?

- My recommendation is to employ a QBCC registered business. You know that they're a registered trade, they've got insurances and they've gone through the correct training and should be able to identify an asbestos roof and use the correct methods to deal with it.

- So in that, what training do you recommend that people undertake?

- There's asbestos awareness training or asbestos removal training, if you've done asbestos awareness training. And there's a particular course to be able to remove up to 10 square meters of asbestos in your home. And that is the course that Steven referred to previously of where Work Safe may ask for that proof of having done that training.

- Right. Thank you, Stephen. Another question for you, mate, if you don't mind. When purchasing a home, should I ask the real estate for an ACM register for the home?

- You can certainly ask that. And I'd encourage you as part of your typical building and pest inspection, that you engage someone that can also include an asbestos assessment as part of that process. So then when you move into the home, you've already got that information as to where asbestos is and they've gone and taken samples to confirm that. So that's really would be my recommendation as part of that building and pest process. You also have an assessment of the building conducted.

- Brilliant. Thank you, Steven. John, back to you mate, if you don't mind. What must be done with clothing, tools, drop sheets, et cetera, materials after then have been used with asbestos for all those building materials, what do we then do with them?

- So once they become asbestos contaminated with tools, there's two options, you can either throw them out as asbestos contaminated waste, so you can decontaminate 'em. Now decontaminating is as simple as wiping them down with a wet cloth and putting 'em outside of where you are dealing with the asbestos or if you're going to throw all them out, especially your drop sheets, et cetera, that's where you double bag them in 200 micron bag and make sure you dispose of 'em at a registered waste facility.

- Beautifully said. Thank you so much, mate. Our next question I think is for you as well, Steven, so I'll stay with you. Why are homes built before 1950 not required to have an asbestos register?

- I'll assume that person's referring to a business in that question. So the reason for the cutoff dates, it really relates to when asbestos materials were manufactured and used commonly. So the dates for each cutoff as to when a register required really relates specifically to when asbestos materials were no longer used because bans came into place. So those are the reasons behind the timelines for various different rulings on that matter.

- Jodie, I've got a quick question for you. You've been working this space for a while and with the statewide strategic plan, it seems incredibly comprehensive with the 24 action plans, how satisfied are you that the team is doing everything they possibly can so that we don't hear stories like Julie and Don and the tragic story of Adam?

- Well, we've got, as I said, we've got the nine agencies who have got incredible expertise. We've got a couple of them here today who had input to that. We have a lot of our stakeholders who have, again, have a lot of qualifications, background and information who inform that. And we have people with lived experience such as Julia and Don, who also are engaged in those sorts of things. So although the nine agencies we have have got incredible capability, we also go outside our organization to make sure that we're getting the right way. We can write laws, we can write the rules, which are incredibly important to set the standard across this country, but how you get that information out and how do you influence people and how do you engage people and get them to make a choice to do the right thing cannot just be done by the agency. So we have to work outside. So the process of just even getting that plan, it was really robust and as I said, that whole focus on awareness, the whole focus on standards, the whole focus on when you move it, remove it and dispose of it, and also making sure that we've got an eye on managing it when it's in situ, they're the four primary, it aligns to the national plan. So yeah, pretty confident we've got it, but we will evaluate it, we will see the impact and if it's not hitting the mark, then we'll change it.

- Yeah. Beautiful. I'm gonna leave the last words I think to you, Julie and Don, while we've got this moment, we're almost gonna close out Asbestos Special Safety Session for 2022. If you were just to give out the most important remarks you could to the greater community out there, just again surmising what you've already said, of course, what do you wanna leave them with?

- Find out what is in their home just for their own safety sake so that they know what they're dealing with. You can get someone to come and do touch tests or take away tests. It's quite inexpensive to be honest and I can't see what monetary value you'd put on someone's life. And then you at least know what you're dealing with and you know, whether you want to progress further as to making holes in walls or painting walls or sanding walls or doing renovations. Just know what's there and it can save a lot of heartache.

- What a great way to finish. Thank you so much, Julie. And massive thank you to all of our presenters to be with us here today for our Special Safety Session for 2022. Jodie, Julie, Don, Steven, and John, thank you so much for being with us. Thanks for your words and like Julie said, can certainly save a life at the very least, save you a great deal of money and heartache. To all of you, thank you so much for watching from all over this big, beautiful state of Queensland. And I would highly encourage you to access any resources or materials and anything you need to know to dip into the awareness of asbestos. Certainly go to once again the hub of all your information, asbestos.qld.gov.au. And don't forget those four brilliant films as part of the first delivery for the statewide strategic plan covering finding asbestos in homes from the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties, we sort of got a glimpse of that first one. An absolutely brilliant resource. See it, share it, encourage other people to see it and raise that awareness. Don't forget today's session was recorded. And so in terms of sharing and watching, again, please do so. Of course you know exactly how valuable this information is. Let's send it out as much as we can. Once again, one in three homes in Australia containing asbestos. And like Don said earlier, 700 people suffering from asbestos related diseases throughout the country. This needs to stop and that starts with you and accessing this amazing material. Thanks once again. Be safe. Be well. And one last thing. We would love to just get better at these sessions. We wanna fine tune them as best we can. And to do that, we're gonna email you a small survey. It takes just two minutes of your time. Your feedback will be absolutely critical and to helping us make this as as good as we can possibly make it. Once again, thanks again. Be safe. Be well. Thank you.